Speaking of which, the Eastern Empire is not really closely related to the Empire, but the relationship between them is not very good either. In the past, when the Eastern Empire developed on the sea, there was nothing wrong with the Northern Empire. The Northern Empire has always been
A land country, but now it is different from before. He saw the huge interests in the ocean, so they had to march into the ocean. This caused a certain conflict with the Eastern Empire, which already had its own independence on the ocean, just like this
The place is the same. In the past, the Eastern Empire would definitely occupy all of it, but now half of it is given to the people of the Northern Empire. No one can tell who the things here belong to on the sea. It's not like there are some on Earth.
Complete laws can be followed. There are no maritime laws here at all. As long as you occupy it, it is yours. If you have the ability to take it back from others, others will not say anything. Isn’t this how the Cao Family Trading Company does it?
?
They didn't have such a problem in the past. Even if they had, they wouldn't have started a war. Now the matter is not that simple. They are not fools. They can all see that the war is about to begin. They must
The fight was about to start. Li Yi was already on the airship. He wanted to see how these people fought. The navies of the two empires might all be involved. Although their navies were not very powerful, they were still the same.
If you have the opportunity to observe and learn, no one can say that they are very good at studying and do not need to learn anything. This is impossible. Now Li Li can see that the speed of the Eastern Empire Navy warships is faster than
The ones from the Northern Empire are much faster, and they have all taken good positions. The position downwind is much better than the one against the wind. At least the speed and range of the crossbow can be increased a lot.
The war started soon, even much faster than Li Li thought. You can tell by looking at their looks. No one of them will give in to anyone. Each of these people started their own war.
, Li Li, who is accustomed to modern warfare, is still very interested in this. In an instant, the first wave of warships began to exchange fire. The first ones to be hit were the warships that fired crossbows. While they were attacking others,
, they will also become the target of others. There is no doubt about this. They all know it clearly. Just like now, these people have seen the scene of crossbow arrows shooting into their warships.
It is already very hard wood, but the head of the crossbow arrow is made of the best thing called steel purchased from Cao's Trading Company. This thing is more powerful than some iron tools, even up to level five.
The weapons used by soldiers. The rapid development of this thing has made the wood on warships no longer belong to their opponents. It is for this reason that they will send a large amount of their iron ore to the Cao Family Trading Company in exchange for such
Things, only 500 tons of iron ore can be exchanged for one pound of refined iron. The price is indeed too much, but there is no other way. If you don't change it, other empires will definitely do such things.
What do you have when everyone is equipped? You don’t have anything. At that time, you will really suffer a loss. They have to do such things, which can be verified on the battlefield.
Yes, it seemed that some of the money they spent at the beginning was okay. Although the Eastern Empire was upwind, it seemed that the first silent warship might be the Eastern Empire's ship because they were so unlucky.
How can we say that they have bad luck? Many warships were hit by this thing, but they were all hit above the waterline. Who knew that this one was hit below the waterline?
, this is a matter of your luck. The entire bow of the ship is filled with water. It is impossible for them to bet on such a thing. Although many ships in this era also have such protective measures,
It is absolutely impossible for them to get out of the water faster than they can slip in. Besides, this ship is located at the front, and it will definitely become the target of public criticism. Sure enough, before they can catch their breath, another
The attack came again, and many ships over there opened fire on the injured warship desperately. They all understood very well that killing you while you are sick is the most effective time.
, more than a dozen crossbows passed through one after another, and some of them directly penetrated the ship. You can see the situation over there from here. Some of the equipment on the ship are basically useless. This
At this time, the speed slowed down. In addition, after being hit by the trebuchet, it goes without saying that at this time, they just waited for silence. One of the warships of the Eastern Empire was killed when they came up. They were very depressed, but
They quickly moved this disadvantage back, mainly because they had more crossbows on the ship. If the number occupies a certain advantage, then this advantage will gradually become apparent later. You have eight crossbows per ship.
But there are more than a dozen of them. Although I can’t say that one of you can beat the two of you, it is certain that you are definitely not as powerful as others in combat. This is something everyone knows. It depends on how well you do it.
"It seems that naval battles in this era are really cruel. They will go over and kill them all. In the end, there may be jumping operations." Li Li looked at the sky and said, what he said was jumping operations.
It is the soldiers on this ship who rush to other people's ships when the ship is approaching. This kind of combat method has long been eliminated on the earth, but it is still very popular here. Many people feel that this is not a good thing.
Like this, but they had no choice but to accept it in the end. There were also some naval officers in the Eastern Empire on the airship. This was what Li Cong meant. Although many of them
I have fought against the navies of several major empires, but I have never seen how they fight up close. It is absolutely correct to know yourself and your enemy and you will never be defeated in a hundred battles. Just like now, they all have to watch carefully.
, Otherwise, there may be a lot of jokes in the future. Only by understanding them can we do better. Everyone laughed when they heard what Li Li said. If they use this method of fighting with the people of the Cao Family Trading Company,
If they fight, they will definitely lose. Just now they have seen the range of the crossbows and trebuchets below. The furthest is about three thousand meters. It is impossible to cause harm to them.
As for close combat? That is even more impossible, unless everyone in the Cao Family Trading Company has a brain problem. Otherwise, no one is willing to go over and play so-called close combat with you. When they were discussing, the following people had already
The war has been going on for half an hour, and the sea is full of warships fighting. They are already approaching. The commander of the Eastern Empire Navy must be a fool.
The navy of the Eastern Empire is much more powerful than the navy of the Northern Empire, especially their attack power and speed. If they don't engage in close combat, their chances of winning are very high. Who would have thought that these people would be stupid and rush forward?
, This is definitely an honor in their navy. The behavior of walking and fighting at the same time is simply too embarrassing. They will not do such a thing. Although the navy of Cao Family Trading Company is very powerful. But in their
They don't pay much attention to the navy of the Cao Family Trading Company. In their opinion, the navy of the Cao Family Trading Company has no skills at all. As long as they get close, they will run away, and they can run so fast. Why don't they dare?
How about beating them upright? If the people of the Cao Family Trading Company heard their accusations, they would definitely not say anything. They would even hide their identities and go up and scold the people of the Cao Family Trading Company.
Why? Why? It is necessary to make them feel that their fighting method is very correct. The behavior of the Cao Family Trading Company is to escape, so that they despise such things from the bottom of their hearts, so they will not do it.
, Only the navy of the Cao Family Trading Company can win. The navy of the Eastern Empire will never do such a thing. If you don't do it, you will probably suffer a loss. The battle just now seems to be that the people of the Northern Empire are not very good.
This is true, but you can really see it when it comes to close combat. The soldiers of the Northern Empire are very powerful in individual combat, and they quickly boarded the warships of the Eastern Empire. The navy of the Eastern Empire used to be
They learned something about driving a boat. They didn't know how to fight at such a close range, so it was a certainty that they would suffer. Just like now, they couldn't hold on any longer and were a little tired.
Let’s take a look at the Northern Empire. They have successfully captured seven Eastern Empire warships. They cannot relax at this time. You must know that the Eastern Empire’s navy has always been much stronger than them. If the Eastern Empire
If the people of the Empire adopt the so-called wandering tactics, the people of the Northern Empire will really have a headache. Compared with the warships of the Cao Family Trading Company, the warships of the Eastern Empire are not very fast, and they can be said to be slow.
Yes, but a big problem is that the warships of the Eastern Empire cannot catch up with the warships of the Cao Family Trading Company, but their speed is still very good compared to yours. I guess you are also very depressed about this kind of thing. At this time, the Navy Commander of the Eastern Empire
It can also be seen that if they do not retreat, their navy may really fail. After losing dozens of warships, the navy of the Eastern Empire began to withdraw its troops. You can leave if you want? That is the Northern Empire.
If you are willing, some of our soldiers in the Eastern Empire are not willing. If you leave now, don’t say it so nicely, calling it a transfer or something like that. This is running away and losing the honor of our navy. You know, we all
You are not a fool. The result of this is that the Navy of the Eastern Empire will be looked down upon by others in the world. This is absolutely not allowed. Some of these soldiers are purely to protect their honor, but there are some who are the most famous.
The real ones are those who were bribed by the people from the Cao Family Trading Company. They all want the war to continue. As for why, we don’t know, because the people from the Cao Family Trading Company said that this is not what we need to know.
Yes, you just need to know that if you take their money, you have to let this matter continue until they want to surrender. This is buying and selling, it is a transaction.
The people from the Northern Empire will also not let go of the Eastern Empire's fleet. You are stronger than us, and your weapons are very good, but the current results are not as good as ours. Although we are not as good as you in everything, but
We can beat you away. If you have the ability, you might as well give it to us to try and see if you have the ability. If not, there is no need to continue living like this every day.
Earning such a large salary and driving such a good ship, the result was such an attitude after going to the battlefield. At this time, the fleet commander of the Northern Empire also hesitated. The border of the Eastern Empire was in front of him. If he pursued it,
Without support, if the people over there encounter the Eastern Empire's support fleet, they will suffer a loss in the end. They are still so powerful on other people's territory. In the end, they will definitely be killed by the Eastern Empire's people.
At that time, I had nothing, but I felt it was a pity to give up the interests in my hands. Although the warships of the Eastern Empire were ready to escape, their main force basically existed.
If we let them go back like this, they will still be a threat to us in the future. Why not just kill them all at once this time. If this is the case, we can still solve a lot of troubles and send troops without permission.
Things like this are no joke. Conflict and war are two different concepts. Some people are not worried about this, but some people are thinking about whether they will be included in this list." But in the end
At that time, the warships of the Northern Empire still made a decision. Just kill them directly. The nearest base of the Eastern Empire is hundreds of miles away. Want to come to support? It can't be done.
"It seems that the people from the Northern Empire will not let the people from the Eastern Empire go so easily. Their war will probably not end until tomorrow. Our people should also take action." Li Li looked at the people below.
The person who started the pursuit said. The failure of the Eastern Empire is certain, but they also gained a lot. Their failure this time was mainly caused by the different opinions of people within the army. Such a thing is for
For them, this is the case. They don’t even understand what’s going on, so what happened was caused by the uselessness of these people. If they could have unified earlier, there would be no need for this. Now the Eastern Empire’s fleet
Half of the people inside are not willing to stay at all. They are all cowards, but they just carry out the orders given by the fleet commander, and the rest are those who disobey. None of those guys want to
When they go back, they want to defend the honor of the navy, and they want to teach the navy of the Northern Empire a lesson. But they are in a very good mood. Unfortunately, their approach will definitely not succeed. Because their people are already in vain.
, their brothers have already started to run away, and the remaining people are not as numerous as the people in the Northern Empire. If the fight continues, they will only be the most depressed in the end, seeing everyone running away.
Brothers, I want to go up and kill them. The Eastern Empire has invested so much in the navy. I didn’t expect that the first battle would be like this. How will we face those people in the future? But they also see it.
Come out, if these people don't run away and follow the tactics of the Cao Family Trading Company, they may win, but it's too late now.
"Young Master, our people have already begun to lobby their senior officials in the capitals of the Eastern Empire and the Northern Empire. We also sent a lot of money there. After talking about what happened this time, they actually wanted to vigorously develop themselves.
For the navy, I estimate that the Eastern Empire will lose hundreds of ships this time, and the number of people will be around 20,000. Although the Northern Empire will not lose people to this level, it will not be too different. In such a war
It's like this. Kill ten thousand enemies and lose eight thousand. It's impossible to widen the gap. If both countries start to vigorously develop their navies, their comprehensive national strength will be affected a lot. Some of our shipbuilding
The factory is almost ready. This time we have made an export-type giant shark model warship, which is more suitable for them. Our cost is about 45,000 taels of silver per ship, and we can definitely sell it to them for 30
It's ten thousand taels of silver a piece, and they probably won't care about the price, because our production is all done on the rty planet. It's already mechanized production there, but it's all manual production here." Li Li's
There is still a secretary from the earth. If he wants people from this planet to be his secretary, he will not be able to tell them many things. This is a bit bad. The secretary is not very familiar with some things, so how can he
How could he know everything so clearly? It was for this reason that Li Li asked a guy on Earth to be his secretary. This guy turned out to be a front-line civilian officer. When he heard that he could be his secretary, he also
It was a commotion for a while, but after seeing some of the things Li Wei had done in the past, I came to terms with it, and maybe I thought Li Wei was a wise master.
"Haha, this is actually done well. In fact, especially the people in the Eastern Empire, they have developed very much. It can be said that they have recovered from the damage caused to them by our war a long time ago. Linghu
The family is really becoming more and more useless now. The royal family of the Eastern Empire is more united than before. It was not like this before. Unexpectedly, the rebellion of the Linghu family helped them. That emperor is a
Talented people, when he implemented so many policies, we didn't stop them. This was also our biggest mistake, but it is no longer needed now. Now give me some overview of the Eastern Empire Navy, which should be more detailed.
Yes, the Northern Empire also needs it. Let me analyze them. Of course I know that the Northern Empire's war potential is not as good as that of the Eastern Empire, but we don't expect that the conflict in front of us will allow them to carry out a war across the entire empire.
There are basically no borders on land, only one province is bordered, but on the edge of the Warcraft Mountains, there are quite a lot of Warcraft there. It is absolutely impossible for anyone to foolishly go to that place to fight." Li Yi.
I know that Li Cong took the initiative to hand over some things to him after he came. This can be regarded as an assessment for him and also teaches him how to do things. Now some of the business of Cao Family Commercial Bank is basically done by this boy.
Now that he is in charge, of course Li Cong has his own affairs. At least now it seems that this boy is doing very well. Many people feel that their young master is doing things fairly well. If he was not good at it, he would probably have done it long ago.
Someone has stood up to oppose this kid. The internal situation of the Cao Family Trading Company is like this. Although it is not the same as on earth, it is still very democratic.
The secretary quickly opened the information he had prepared. The Eastern Empire had its own navy before, which could be divided into three major fleets. However, during the last war, the Eastern Empire's navy was basically destroyed.
Now their navy is newly established. Although they are all new things, their combat effectiveness is very powerful. This is a matter of background. They have developed the ocean for tens of thousands of years.
So they have done very well in this regard. It took twelve years to establish the navy and they have already established two fleets. They are the First Fleet and the Second Fleet. The defense areas of these two fleets are
They are separated by a large river in the Eastern Empire. The First Fleet is responsible for the southern area, while the Second Fleet is responsible for the northern area. What is currently fighting is a squadron of the Second Fleet belonging to the Eastern Empire. Their structure is like this
Yes, the Eastern Empire is composed of ten large and small ships organized into a squadron, which can be said to be the smallest combat unit. A naval squadron has two squadrons, a squadron has four squadrons, and a squadron has a command post, which consists of approximately
100 large and small ships, five brigades are a detachment, about 600 ships of various types, five detachments are a squadron, about 4,000 warships, currently, there are about 1,000 squadrons along the coast of the Eastern Empire, and their ships
The total number has reached an astonishing 5 million, all of which have been developed in the past twelve years. Especially in such an era of purely manual work, it is very good for them to have such abilities, at least on this planet.
There was no such ability in that period, and there would never be such a large fleet, because the oceans on Earth are not as big as here.
Compared with the navy of the Eastern Empire, the navy of the Northern Empire has some serious shortcomings. This is also directly related to the terrain of the Northern Empire. Although they have a large sea area, they are basically not very big here.
It is relatively cold, and there is an icy forest to the north, which is full of dangers, so most of the army is from the army. Why do you want the navy to do it? We don’t have any rights at sea, but Cao Cao
After the rise of the merchant houses, they have finally seen the importance of the navy, but there are not many people in their country who can swim. In such a situation, if they want to form a navy, it will not be easy.
It is for this reason that the Northern Empire's navy can be said to be developing extremely slowly. In the past two years, the Northern Empire has only increased its investment in the navy. As of now, the Northern Empire only has one fleet. The number of their ships
That is to say, there are less than 500,000 ships, only one-tenth of the Eastern Empire. If they really have a naval battle with the Eastern Empire, they really don’t have much chance of winning, because in terms of numbers,
It seems that they are really far apart. Of course, it also depends on where the fight starts. If it is on the territory of the Northern Empire, the Eastern Empire is basically of no benefit. The distance is too far. The Cao Family Trading Company
It is very difficult for people to fight such a war, let alone the people of the Eastern Empire. They don’t even have airship transportation. They can’t support such a big war. They can only
They just need to send some expeditionary troops one after another. The people from the Cao Family Trading Company have made the calculation for them. In the end, both sides will regret this matter.
Seven hours later, the war was basically over. Because a group of Eastern Empire warships had left, they were no match for the remaining Northern Empire warships. 32 of them were captured and 80 were sunk.
About 50 ships escaped and returned, and the Northern Empire also counted more than 70 ships. In any case, Lihu will be regarded as belonging to the Northern Empire in the future. The Eastern Empire has hoarded a lot of war materials on it. What does it count now?
All are gone. The people of the Northern Empire have achieved a great victory. But after the war, there is another problem. The navy people have not found the few people the Governor is looking for, but now the Governor no longer needs this.
It's over, he doesn't need the money anymore, because he has won a big victory now. Although he didn't do this, it has a lot to do with him. Such things can also be said to be done by himself, the high-level officials of the Northern Empire.
No one thought that their navy would defeat the Eastern Empire's navy. If the Northern Empire and the Eastern Empire had contact on the ground, they would probably immediately drag the governor to take the blame. They are no match for the Eastern Empire.
Back then, the three major empires plus the Cao Family Trading Company were able to stop the people of the Eastern Empire. Now they have to rely on their own abilities? Don’t be kidding, such a thing is absolutely impossible, but now there is no territory.
Yes, a war at sea? It doesn't matter, it will take several months to get from us to the Eastern Empire. What do you think you can do to us in these few months? We will not be afraid of you, either.
It was because of things like this that the senior officials began to praise this guy. He knew that he would definitely be promoted. However, another problem was that people in the Northern Empire began to pay attention to the navy.
The battle report was also quickly sent to the Eastern Empire. In the past, the Eastern Empire belonged to the boss, and the Northern Empire could be said to be the most useless. I really didn’t expect that now it would ride on the boss’s head. This is
I've turned against you. They knew that the Cao Family Trading Company had its own investigations into the armies of the major empires. They immediately sent people to contact the people from the Cao Family Trading Company, hoping to get some specific information about the Northern Empire Navy.
News, the Cao Family Firm has done this kind of news buying and selling many times, but basically they are all deals that are beneficial to themselves. This will help them get some news, and also allow them to make a lot of profits, like this
Things must be done. The people in the Eastern Empire are still very rational. They don't shout to go out and do anything to them. They don't talk about destroying the Northern Empire. This is why Li Cong admires the Eastern Empire.
Where these people are, these guys will not act recklessly even if they have suffered huge losses. Such people make Li Cong feel that it is good to cooperate with them, but now they should meet their requirements. Li Cong directly asks people to
After giving them the news, no one from the Eastern Empire made any next move. This made the people of the Cao Family Trading Company feel a little strange. In recent times, the Eastern Empire merchants in the Northern Empire have been robbed and killed.
Yes, they have raised this issue with the people of the Northern Empire several times, but the local official power of the Northern Empire is not very strong at all. It is still a bit difficult to ask them to do this, so the only option is
I endured it, but I didn't expect that such a large-scale conflict would actually occur. This was something that no one on both sides expected. It seemed that neither of them could restrain themselves.
Li Cong didn't say anything after knowing that the Eastern Empire had not taken any action. The people of the Eastern Empire were not fools. He had already received the news. The navy of the Eastern Empire wanted to have a fight with the Northern Empire, because they knew that they would definitely
It is a victory, but the Minister of Household Affairs of the Eastern Empire has said that if you go to fight on other people's territory, the possibility of victory is very slim. Let's not talk about anything else, let's just say that the war of the Cao family business in the Western Empire is
Okay, the transportation capacity of Cao's Trading Company is many times stronger than ours, but what can we do in the end? Did we get anything? Nothing. In the end, the people of Cao's Trading Company just left.
Although it brought a big shock to the Western Empire, it didn't achieve much. No one would be happy with such a thing. We can't learn from them, and the people in the Cao Family Trading Company didn't expect them to do it.
Some of the things you have done have also been regarded as negative examples. Li Cong is too lazy to take care of it now. Anyway, as long as he is your enemy, it will be fine. What Li Cong has to do now is the traffic planning issue in the occupied area.
, Li Cong looked around from inside to outside after this period of time. There are already 135 provinces in his occupied area, but the traffic problems within these more than 100 provinces are really bad. This is already
It has affected many things, so building the road is now something that Li Cong must do. It is something that the entire Cao family business must do. Now let’s see how this road should be built, from the earth to the
It is obviously not very realistic to make cement here, but would it be too shocking to make cement from here? However, after thinking about it for a while, Li Cong decided to produce it locally.
Because the entire plan requires too much cement, if it is all transported and produced on the earth, it may empty the mountains on the earth. After all, the area of this planet is much larger than that of the earth.
Times, the roads built here are also many times those on Earth. What we need to do now is to build a cement factory here. There is not much technology for things like cement. Li Cong first asked the Earth side to transport it through the teleportation array.
When a cement production equipment arrives, the next batch is 3,000 people from Earth. One hundred of them are cement workers. Basically, the people sent here from Earth are from various industries.
Elites. It can be said that very few ordinary workers like this are sent here. They are also very willing to come here to have a look. The only thing is that once you get here, it is more difficult to go back because
The technical reason has not been solved yet, but it can only transport some dead things back. Basically, the living people have never gone back, but these people seem to like this place very much, and there is no such thing as using cement to pave the road.
No matter how high the technical content, there are just more people needed. Now Li Cong is mainly building roads in the hundreds of provinces located in the southern part of the Southern Empire. The most important one is the roads along the borders.
If a war really breaks out, they can be connected quickly. This road is 40,000 kilometers long, which is definitely a fatal number. According to Li Cong's requirements, the roads are pruned to 15
Meter wide, in fact, this cannot be considered very wide. War preparation roads should be like this. Construction should start about 50 kilometers away from the border. It is best if the original reason can be connected in series.
The problem of materials can basically be solved within a month. The other thing that needs to be solved is the human problem. The Yue people have already gathered together. They are the main force in building roads. None of these guys are there.
I thought that someone would pay them wages. Logically speaking, they were all slaves. There was no need to pay wages at all. As long as they were allowed to eat and not starve to death, Li Cong was not that kind of person.
He has done a good job in matters such as people's hearts. Li Cong has already asked them to start the first phase of work. Although there is no cement yet, he can still let them smooth the road. In addition to the 20 million yuan
In addition to the clan members, Li Cong also found a lot of local workers, and these people were sent to the cement factory to do work. Although everything there would surprise them, the most important thing was that they were not allowed to see it.
Well, after seeing the cement, some insiders of the Cao Family Trading Company even wanted to build a city wall in the border area. Isn't this just another Chang City? They would definitely not agree to such a thing immediately. If a city wall was built,
Such a thing will seal your heart. As long as there is no such thing, it can be said that your own army will be strong. Rather than spending so much money to prune such a thing, it is better to
To build a strong army, building roads is not a small matter. Li Cong gave Gu Xinlai full responsibility. It can be said that the money invested is also huge. It is estimated that it will take 30 million people three years to build a strong army.
These 40,000 kilometers of roads have been built. They are very clear about this kind of thing, and it does not happen overnight.
This project also requires a huge investment. For now, these 30 million workers earn one hundred cents a day, and they have to take care of three meals. It is impossible for Li Cong to give them the same as in the army.
The remuneration is just to give them enough food. In this way, it is 20 cents a day. One worker per day is 120 cents, and 3.6 taels of silver a month. All of this is more than 100 million taels of silver. Three
The construction period of 10 years is definitely not a small amount. For things like cement, just find a mountain to mine. Li Cong roughly estimated that hundreds of millions of tons of cement would be needed for a 40,000km road. In some places, there is no need for it at all.
It is easy to get water, but this thing is not easy to get. Besides, each of these workers has just started to come into contact with such things. It is inevitable that there will be some problems. That is, because of these problems, these guys may appear in the end.
There are many problems that may still need to be reworked. Such things may also happen. These people understand this matter very well. They all know it very well. There is nothing these people can do. They are all slaves.
In the past, they knew almost nothing and could only let them learn little by little. However, Li Cong still had plans. Road construction could not be completed in one day. The cement factory chose about ten locations.
In the future, civilian cement can also continue to be produced, but at that time those people didn’t know if they could do it well. Each of the Yue people was very grateful to Li Cong, and Li Cong also had his own
The idea is that if the Yue people mix well here, more Yue people will come here in the future. By then, this will be the home of the Yue people. They will like this place very much and will buy from outside in the future.
As for some Yue people, they will not have such a big resistance. Of course, they cannot be kept as slaves. Li Cong also said that after ten years of service, they can become a free person. This is
This is something that has not happened on the entire continent. Each of these people are very happy. They did not expect that such a thing would happen. No slave can stop being a slave after being a slave for a while. This is the first time that I have encountered this here.