While Zhao Junchen was explaining his views, he had been secretly observing the changes in Yang Xun's expression.
If Yang Xun's expression shows even a hint of embarrassment and anger, Zhao Junchen will immediately shut up, or change the subject and quickly say, "But in general, this junior is very supportive of these ideas of yours, Yang Daru."
However, what Zhao Junchen admired even more was that although Yang Xun was questioned by Zhao Junchen several times, he did not become angry at all, but was seriously thinking about solutions.
In fact, during this debate, Zhao Junchen secretly played tricks. The issues he raised were largely not about the formulation and implementation of laws, but the ethical issues involved in the implementation of laws.
As for this kind of problem, it has always been the case that the father-in-law is right and the mother-in-law is right.
In fact, Zhao Junchen himself did not find the answer to the question he raised.
In other words, although Zhao Junchen raised these questions, he did not seriously think about the relevant answers.
Because Zhao Junchen is a pragmatist and a utilitarian. Only idealists can seriously think about ethical issues like this, but Zhao Junchen does not.
In this world, the boundaries between good and evil are often blurred. It would be very tiring to always use vague standards of good and evil to ask yourself. Therefore, most people tend to simplify this complex issue, hoping to find an absolute judgment.
Criteria, as long as you can act according to such a criterion of judgment, you can give up thinking and never have a bad conscience.
The emergence of idealists is to find such an absolute standard of judgment for people. Some idealists appeal to "morality", some appeal to "religion", and Yang Xun appeals to
"Law".
Therefore, the common feature of "morality", "religion" and "law" is that they all provide people with a clear standard for judging good and evil.
However, as a pragmatist and utilitarian, Zhao Junchen resists the dualism of black and white, good and evil.
Take the question asked by Zhao Junchen just now, "Which is more important, procedural justice or consequential justice?" as an example.
Some people think that procedural justice is important, because procedural justice is the source of water, and consequential justice is just the water flowing out of the water source, and the water source must not be polluted for the sake of partial water flow.
Some people think that the justice of the result is important, because if the result is not fair, then procedural justice is meaningless.
But in Zhao Junchen's view, once procedural justice and consequential justice conflict, it only means one thing - procedural failure, and the review, supervision, and checks and balances involved in the procedure have become buck-passing and wrangling.
, and inaction!
If this happens occasionally, you can naturally ignore it; if this happens often, then reform is needed; if this happens all the time... then more drastic measures need to be taken.
However, when can we ignore it? When is reform necessary? When is drastic measures necessary? This kind of thing cannot be solved by the dualism of good and evil proposed by idealists.
Many times, there is no binary of right or wrong, good or evil, only appropriateness or inappropriateness.
For example, Zhao Junchen dislikes factory guards very much, but if Zhao Junchen is asked to decide whether to abolish factory guards, Zhao Junchen will definitely not agree until a new organization emerges.
Because the territory of the Ming Dynasty was vast and the situation was complex, centralization of power was extremely needed. As long as anything could strengthen centralization, the benefits would outweigh the disadvantages. If it weakened centralization, the disadvantages would outweigh the benefits.
The same is true for Yang Xun's concept. It is the truth a hundred years from now, but it is not suitable for the here and now, because this concept weakens centralization.
But regarding this point, Zhao Junchen would not say it outright anyway, because once he expressed this idea, he would really offend Yang Xun completely.
Yang Xun may be able to accept that his ideas have loopholes and need to be improved, but he may not be able to accept that his ideas are out of date and may do more harm than good.
*
There is no need to talk about Zhao Junchen’s inner thoughts.
But he said that because of Zhao Junchen's continuous questions, Yang Xun couldn't help but fall into a long period of silence and thinking.
Seeing Yang Xun's appearance, Zhao Junchen did not urge or say anything more. He just lowered his head silently and continued to read Yang Xun's articles, pretending to be unable to put it down.
At the same time, Yang Xun's two disciples and Zhao Junchen's staff also fell into thinking because of Zhao Junchen's views.
For a moment, the sound of a needle dropping could be heard in the main hall of the Zhao Mansion, and everyone was silent.
Just like this, after about a stick of incense, Yang Xun suddenly laughed, and his smile was extremely cheerful.
"Zhao Gechen's point of view is very interesting... Moreover, Zhao Gechen, you seem to be particularly accustomed to giving examples to support your views." As he spoke, Yang Xun stopped the smile on his face, his expression returned to seriousness, and he said slowly: "That's exactly what happened.
Because of the examples cited by Zhao Gechen, I was misled and almost led to a ditch!"
After a pause, under the attention of everyone, Yang Xun continued: "Zhao Gechen repeatedly cited some examples to support his point of view and strengthen his persuasiveness. In my opinion, it is just a sign of guilty conscience!
In this world, there is no need to use a large number of examples to prove the truth of the truth. Zhao Gechen repeatedly gave examples to prove it, but it shows that these examples are only a few special circumstances!
Hey! Zhao Gechen can cite some examples to support his point of view, but I can also cite ten times more examples to refute Zhao Gechen's point of view. However, special cases do not represent universal principles. Just because of a few special cases, the general situation is denied.
, isn’t it because he stopped eating because of choking?
Could it be said that just because there are a few unworthy descendants in this world, we don’t need to raise children to protect ourselves in old age? There may always be loopholes and lags in imperial decrees, but what we have to do is to make timely additions and strive to improve them, rather than denying that they exist.
Correct in most cases!”
After Yang Xun also used examples to refute Zhao Junchen's point of view, his expression showed a hint of pride.
On the other side, after hearing what Yang Xun said, everyone in the room also had a look of astonishment on their faces, and they all nodded to show that what Yang Xun said was reasonable.
Before that, they all felt that there was something wrong with Zhao Junchen's statement, but they couldn't tell. Now after hearing Yang Xun's rebuttal, they all discovered the loopholes in Zhao Junchen's views.
However, Zhao Junchen still insisted on his opinion and shook his head again: "Of course, juniors also know that the existence of special cases does not represent the general phenomenon!
But the junior does not list these examples out of guilt. However, as a court minister, the junior has always believed that the existence and responsibilities of the court and government are not to interfere with the daily activities of the world, but to handle these special cases in a timely manner.
The special examples listed by the juniors are all related to the actual implementation of the imperial court!
These special cases with loopholes must be only a few at first, but before the court laws are further improved, if they cannot be corrected in time, they will inevitably spread rapidly, and the consequences will become more and more serious!
In short, the younger generation believes that court decrees should not interfere with the role of the court and the government in handling special cases. If the court and the government have no power to handle these special cases, then it will be completely useless."
Hearing what Zhao Junchen said, Yang Xun's eyes suddenly lit up, but he asked: "Zhao Gechen just said that you think the existence and responsibilities of the imperial court are only to deal with special situations, not to interfere with the daily activities of the world, then
How should people’s daily activities be restricted?”
Zhao Junchen said directly: "On this point, this junior fully agrees with your point of view, Yang Daru, which is to formulate detailed and comprehensive laws and regulations to regulate the daily actions of all officials and people, and it is feasible without prohibition by law! Unless
It is a special case that has a bad impact, otherwise the court cannot interfere at will, and the lower the sense of existence, the better!"
Having said this, Zhao Junchen smiled and continued: "From this aspect, the concepts of this junior and yours, Yang Daru, still have more in common, but there are differences in some implementation details."
After hearing this, Yang Xun became more aware of Zhao Junchen's true thoughts and the differences between the two.
In other words, Zhao Junchen also recognizes the importance of laws and regulations, and believes that the law is always improving, and loopholes in the past will always be solved, but before these loopholes are solved, the harm caused by these legal loopholes will be as great as
Should the court take action to deal with the negative impact? How should it be dealt with, and to what extent?
In short, Zhao Junchen's doubts about Yang Xun's theory mainly focus on the "interrelationship between administrative power and judicial power". Yang Xun believes that justice can interfere with administration, but administration should not interfere with justice, while Zhao Junchen thinks
It is believed that administrative power should interfere with the judiciary under special circumstances.
After thinking about this, Yang Xun also believed that the similarities between the two people's views far outweighed the differences.
At least, Zhao Junchen was not like those great Confucians of the time who believed that the Confucian Three Cardinal Guidelines and Five Constant Rules should be placed before the court's laws and regulations. Zhao Junchen even never mentioned the Three Cardinal Guidelines and Five Constant Rules. Looking at this alone, Yang Xun could
Zhao Junchen is regarded as a confidant and ally!
However, just as Zhao Junchen insisted on his own opinion, Yang Xun would not be easily convinced by Zhao Junchen - he believed that his theory did need to be improved, but he did not feel that his theory was wrong.
As a result, the two men then started a heated and orderly debate again, but in the end no one could convince the other.
When the two people came to their senses, they realized that it was already getting late, and they finally ended the debate without saying anything.
Although the debate between the two was extremely fierce, for Zhao Junchen and Yang Xun, the other person was the person with the most common ideas they had encountered in recent years.
Unknowingly, Yang Xun's attitude towards Zhao Junchen was no longer that of an elder and pioneer, but instead regarded Zhao Junchen as a close friend.
Zhao Junchen's arguments may only be fallacious, but they also benefited Yang Xun a lot, and also allowed Yang Xun to find future research directions, so Yang Xun fully recognized Zhao Junchen's wisdom and vision.
For an idealist scholar like Yang Xun, a person's identity and power cannot make him look at him favorably. Only people like Zhao Junchen who have the ability to discuss academics with him and help him improve his theory will really look at him differently.
Treat each other.
From this aspect, Zhao Junchen's plan to win Yang Xun's favor through a debate has been completely successful.
*
However, he said that after the argument was over, Zhao Junchen invited Yang Xun to stay for a dinner, and Yang Xun readily agreed, completely unaware of the consequences of his actions in the eyes of others.
At the dinner, Zhao Junchen and Yang Xun no longer argued about ideas, but just talked about some interesting things about the government and the public. Yang Xun talked about the current situation in Yunnan and Guizhou, while Zhao Junchen talked about some things at the center of the imperial court, but they still got along well.
, the conversation was very pleasant.
When the dinner was about to end, Zhao Junchen finally opened his mouth to test Yang Xun's intention to visit, but Yang Xun avoided answering, saying that he only met Zhao Junchen because he was curious about Zhao Junchen while traveling.
In the end, Zhao Junchen invited Yang Xun to stay in the capital for a longer period of time, or even return to the temple to serve as an official. The reason was that Yang Xun's theory ultimately needed to be further improved through practice.
Regarding Zhao Junchen's suggestion, Yang Xun seemed a little moved, but also a little hesitant. He just said that he would give it some serious consideration.
Finally, when Yang Xun said goodbye and left, Zhao Junchen personally sent him outside the house.
Watching Yang Xun's carriage gradually leave, Zhao Junchen finally restrained himself from the scholarly demeanor he had deliberately shown before, restored his usual calmness and government, and secretly thought: "Speaking of which, Prince Zhu Heyu should be returning to the capital soon.
...I hope Yang Xun can follow my advice and return to the temple as an official. Even if it doesn't work out, he will stay in the capital for a while, so that Prince Zhu Heyu can have a chance to get in touch with him..."
In Zhao Junchen's view, although Yang Xun's ideas are not in line with this era, they are still useful to him.
For example...you can let Yang Xun's ideas influence Prince Zhu Heyu.
Prince Zhu Heyu has always lacked resistance to a flawless master like Yang Xun.
The current Zhu Heyu should be in a confused period where ideals and reality conflict... Under such circumstances, Yang Xun's ideas may become the guiding light for the future of Prince Zhu Heyu!
In this world, regardless of ancient and modern times, at home and abroad, the so-called "history" is actually the history of the victory of realists against idealists. If idealists want to compete with realists, the only way is to stay together and unite.
Yang Xun is obviously an idealist, and Prince Zhu and Yu should still have some idealist characteristics at this time, so Zhao Junchen is also happy to see these two people in contact with each other.
Perhaps, an interesting chemical reaction will occur.
*
And while Zhao Junchen was secretly thinking about Yang Xun's future use, Yang Xun was sitting in the carriage and talking about Zhao Junchen with his two disciples.
He first took a look at the two disciples, only to see Jiang Chun. Both Jiang and Zheng still looked thoughtful, obviously still recalling the previous debate between Yang Xun and Zhao Junchen.
Then, Yang Xun keenly noticed that the attitudes of the two disciples were somewhat shaken, because they had to admit that although Zhao Junchen's theory was somewhat different from Yang Xun's, it did make some sense.
Seeing this situation, Yang Xun sighed softly, and then said: "You two, please don't let Zhao Junchen guide you... Of course, you don't need to completely follow my opinions. You must learn from this matter."
Zhao Junchen, you must have your own observations and conclusions!
But I must say that Zhao Junchen’s views are definitely biased. He always said that once the court decree interferes with the role that the government can play in handling special cases, the role of the government will cease to exist.
, but I insist that once the government can ignore the court decrees in some cases, the role of the court decrees will be in vain...
Neither of us can convince the other, and in the end I'm afraid we will have to do what Zhao Junchen said... everything will be true through practice!"
Hearing what Yang Xun said, the two disciples Jiang Chun and Jiang Zheng nodded.
Later, Jiang Chun couldn't help but comment: "I thought this Zhao Junchen was just a capable corrupt official, but I didn't expect that his knowledge and vision were so amazing... This is the first time I have seen someone arguing with the teacher like this! Teacher!
Although you have often debated classics with those great scholars in recent years, you are almost talking like a chicken to a duck, playing the piano to an ox. Those great scholars are even completely unable to understand the teacher's true ideas, but this Zhao Junchen can not only successfully understand the teacher's ideas, but also put forward
What I have done is truly remarkable... I have been studying the law with my teacher for many years, but I am still far behind him."
On the other side, Jiang Zhengze asked: "Teacher, do you really want to follow Zhao Junchen's advice and become an official again? Also, teacher, the main reason you came to see Zhao Junchen this time is to confirm whether this person will be bound by the imperial decree.
What do you think of him now?"
After Yang Xun pondered for a moment, he slowly shook his head and said: "After this debate, I have indeed thought about becoming an official again, but I still need to think about it seriously. After all, I can't let go of the academy in Yunnan and Guizhou, and I have been
Neither of them likes the intrigues in officialdom...
As for Zhao Junchen...you see, he keeps giving examples to prove that there will always be loopholes in court laws, but this situation proves that Zhao Junchen himself is a person who is good at finding loopholes and exploiting loopholes...
In a way, it is a good thing. Zhao Junchen tends to look for loopholes in the law and exploit them, but it also shows that he does not directly violate the law under ordinary circumstances... This alone is more important than those in the eyes of those who
Those who only have Confucian principles but don’t care about laws and regulations are much better!"
When expressing his stance, Yang Xun's expression was a little helpless, because his ideas far surpassed this era and were always not understood by the world, so even when he encountered Zhao Junchen's performance, he was satisfied.
The word "good" or "bad" is always determined by comparison.
Having said this, Yang Xun suddenly turned his gaze to Jiang Zheng and asked: "Jiang Zheng, your temperament has always been different from Jiang Chun's. Jiang Chun only wants to follow me and concentrate on learning, but you have always been
Some are unwilling to be lonely... Now that I have some friendship with Zhao Junchen, it is also an opportunity. If you are willing, you don’t have to continue to follow me in the future. I will recommend you to Zhao Junchen. By following Zhao Junchen, you can not only realize your ambition
, you can also help me keep an eye on Zhao Junchen."
After Jiang Zheng thought for a moment, he was completely unpretentious and said directly: "After today's experience, the disciple is also willing to do something with Zhao Gechen to increase his knowledge... But although the disciple is unwilling to be lonely, he also dislikes officialdom just like the teacher.
Therefore, although the disciple also has fame, he does not intend to become an official. If the teacher wants to recommend a disciple to Zhao Junchen, just let the disciple serve as his staff."
Yang Xun didn't care at all, and quickly nodded: "In that case, I will introduce you to Zhao Junchen the next time I see him, but whether you can be used by him in the future depends on your own ability.
Already."
In this regard, Jiang Zheng was very confident and said: "Of course it is!"
Over the years, Jiang Zheng has been with Yang Xun, and the knowledge he has learned is not just about laws and regulations!
In fact, what is hidden under the laws and regulations - the perspective of observing things, the understanding of the rules, and the logical thinking in the laws - is the real wealth.
Moreover, over the years, Jiang Zheng has been following Yang Xun around Yunnan and Guizhou, mediating disputes and resolving conflicts. In terms of experience, his experience is no less than that of Zhao Junchen's core staff.
Therefore, Yang Xun was completely confident in Jiang Zheng's ability and believed that it was a good thing for Jiang Zheng to be with Zhao Junchen. It would not only realize Jiang Zheng's own ambitions, but also restrain Zhao Junchen a little.
However, Yang Xun forgot a sentence at this time - "Oranges born in Huainan are oranges, and those born in Huaibei are oranges."
When Jiang Zheng was with Yang Xun, he was certainly a good student who was sensitive and eager to learn, but what Jiang Zheng will become after he follows Zhao Junchen is uncertain.
*
In this way, while Yang Xun was discussing with his two disciples, he quickly returned to the Yungui Guild Hall.
When Yang Xun got off the carriage, he immediately saw several palace eunuchs and royal guards waiting outside the Yungui Guild Hall.
The expressions of these eunuchs and Jin Yiwei were full of impatience, and they had obviously been waiting for Yang Xun for a long time.
But when they saw Yang Xun, they immediately calmed down the impatience on their expressions, and they all put on a respectful attitude - after all, Yang Xun was a person who was famous in Emperor Deqing's heart.
Next, the young eunuch headed by him quickly walked up to Yang Xun, cupped his hands and said: "I have met Mr. Yang! Our family is Li Ru'an, the eunuch of the Imperial Study Room, and we have been waiting here for a long time!
I also hope that Mr. Yang will know that your majesty couldn't help being happy when he heard that Mr. Yang came to the capital, so he asked our family to come here to deliver an oral message to Mr. Yang, calling you to go to the imperial court after the morning session tomorrow morning.
See you in the study."
After hearing Emperor Deqing's oral instructions, Yang Xun did not dare to neglect and immediately agreed.
At the same time, Yang Xun also vaguely felt that he might really have to stay in the capital and become an official again.
But he doesn’t know whether this thing is good or bad for him!
…
Ps: My classmates from "This is Maizi" guessed part of the plot, but after thinking about it I decided to write it according to my original ideas.
There is only one update today, but it is still a big chapter of 6,000 words.